Janet Polach on Leadership

Janet Polach on Leadership

Welcome to be customer led, where we’ll explore how leading experts in customer and employee experience are navigating organizations through their own journey to be customer led and the actions and behaviors employees and businesses exhibit to get there. And now your host, bill Stagos.

[00:00:32] Bill Staikos: Hey everybody. Welcome back to be customer led. I’m your host, bill Staco. Really excited to have you all with us today. We’re gonna do a different style show and you’re gonna have to wait and hang out to see what that means. But, um, I’ve got a really special guest this week, Janet Pollock. Is an author, she’s a speaker, she’s an executive coach.

Um, and the company, she, you know, she, she works out of is in the Lead Inc. And, and some great coaching, particularly even with young professionals. And, um, it’s gonna, we’re gonna go through a coaching session actually today, you know, on the show we’re recording this and, um, I think folks are gonna get a lot of value outta this.

Janet, thanks so much for coming on the show and agreeing to do this with

[00:01:12] Janet Polach: My pleasure. I’m really looking forward to.

[00:01:15] Bill Staikos: Same here. So Janet, before we get started, and you’ve got a really super interesting background, by the way, um, tell our listeners about your professional history and background. Um, and you know, frankly, you’re, you’re, you’re the first military, uh, leader we’ve had on this show as well, which is pretty cool.

But, um, I’d love for you to just kind of tell us about that and then how you got into, uh, leadership development. Great.

[00:01:39] Janet Polach: Thank you, bill. So, uh, I graduated from, uh, college, the University of Wisconsin at Stout, uh, in Wisconsin with a degree in education. And at that time the economy was shrinking and so teaching jobs were a little bit hard to come by.

So I scratched my head and I said, now what am I gonna do? I could have. Either gone back and gotten a master’s and then be especially unemployable or, um, I looked around and decided the military might not be a bad way to go. Peace was breaking out all over the world, and so it was a good time to become a a military member.

I looked at all four services and a Marine Corps recruiter was just really good. He just hit all the right buttons. Talked about espree and belonging and being one of the few, and the proud Little did. I know that in the 20 years that I was on active duty and in the reserves, that everything would change for women in the military.

I equate that mostly to Desert Storm. We deployed all the women that we had, um, during that first, um, incursion with Iraq and women performed admirably. Uh, we now have women in the, at least in the Marine Corps and certainly in all the services, uh, flying combat, he aircraft. Um, leading infantry platoons.

And so really, I, I believe in the United States Supreme Court, the glass ceiling really was broken and I think it was broken because these women were put on the spot and they prevailed. They did a great job. They didn’t complain. They were physically fit. And um, so there is a lot of opportunity because of that in the military for.

I

[00:03:23] Bill Staikos: love that. Yeah. Um, you did see a lot of transition in military all for the better, by the way. Um, in, in, no, in no situation, uh, in the military, in corporate personal, should we limit the talent that we have access to in this country? , and that’s men and women, all colors, shape, sizes, doesn’t really matter.

Um, absolutely. So yeah. If, if you now kind of fast forward now you’re doing, you know, leadership development and coaching. Absolutely. You’ve taken sort of this, um, or you’ve, or you’ve packaged everything you learned in the military essentially, uh, to working with professionals to make them better, um, in their own capacity.

Um, , we we’re gonna do a coaching session now, so you’re gonna, I’m gonna, I don’t know if I should lie down for this janitor or not, but Jan, but, uh, you know, we’ll, uh, it’s not, it’s not obviously a psych session, but the, the scenario that we’re gonna do folks is, um, a scenario that actually happened to me and, um, I, I was just promoted to, uh, vice president, um, leading a small team at a bank.

All the people that I was leading were my peers before the Promot. And while I, I had confidence in my abilities then, you know, I wasn’t feeling so super hot about the fact that, um, you know, now I’m leading my peers and I’ve never done that before and it was very uncomfortable. You know, back then I had teams.

Also, if I just kind of re think back to it, I, I, you know, I had aspirations like a lot of young professionals do, of leading a large team one day, you know, whatever that meant for, for, for a career. And I thought a lot back then. I also thought that leading a large team was sort of important for my career as well.

And, you know, I, I need to plan out my first 90 days, Janet. Um, and really not only show the team that I’m gonna be a great. But also for myself and maybe my own self-confidence on some level. And how might you start that conversation? Yeah.

[00:05:20] Janet Polach: Bill, thank you for this opportunity. I think it’s a really good idea and your situation is what so many leaders have faced, uh, across the United States anyway.

the average individual is promoted to manager at, in their late twenties and often don’t get any leadership development until almost their mid forties. And so these new managers, new leaders are left to kind of flounder and figure it out. Maybe they got lucky enough to have, um, an experienced manager that they could emulate, but most of us, that’s not the case.

So tell me, bill, what, what’s your natural inclination to do during those first 90 days?

[00:05:57] Bill Staikos: That’s a good. I have an a, I’ve just sort of a bias to action generally, and I want to mm-hmm. , I, I think it’s important to establish my role as a leader, be able to, you know, I’m a big believer in managing up and kissing down and, you know, how do I establish my role as a leader, but also balance, balance with, um, Yeah, the fact that, um, you know, everybody that is now reporting it to me were my peers, and there might be some resentment, so I, I’m not even sure.

Maybe how do I address that? Maybe my first, you know, 30 days as well. Yeah,

[00:06:40] Janet Polach: unfortunately it’s a reality. Some of us have been promoted from our peers. My guess is some of those peers might thought they should have, um, gotten that position that you got promoted into. So, you’re right, there is a little bit of resentment, but tell me about the, you wanna establish your leadership role.

What would good look like

[00:07:00] Bill Staikos: for you? Um, one, setting a, setting a vision to a strategy against that vision. Um, and mm-hmm. number three. It’s figuring out how the resources of the team, what we have access to, not just people but also technology, et cetera. Um, how we’re gonna apply those resources or manage them, um, effectively against that strategy to, yeah,

[00:07:23] Janet Polach: bill.

Nice. Yeah. And, and do you feel like that’s the right, think, you know next

[00:07:28] Bill Staikos: steps? I think it would help me. I think it would show the team that I’m capable. I’m serious. , I want, I want the team to be successful. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , and I’m thinking about how to best allocate the resources mm-hmm. and, and maximize even their strengths in a way that will help us deliver more.

I don’t want to necessarily, yeah. I, I don’t know if I wanna necessarily, or I’m concerned that I’m being compared to the prior leader as well, so I’m trying to create sort of my own shoes to fill, not necessarily try fill someone else. .

[00:08:07] Janet Polach: Sure, sure, sure, sure. Bill, you are not alone. I think, I think you’ve described some outstanding next steps.

I think as a leader, you know, there’s, there’s many, many solutions as a leader that we can undertake. Uh, what you have to do is do what feels right to you. You know, if I were to sit here and tell you, oh, you also should do a campaign for the team and a logo and all of that, and if that doesn’t fit for you, that wouldn’t.

So I love how you’ve given some real thought to setting a vision and then thinking about the TRA strategy, and then you know, figuring out who is really capable and who wants to do what on this team. The old leader, the former leader, may not have given people the opportunity to really think about. What do I do well?

How do I really connect with the work that I’m doing? And what’s an opportunity now that we’re shuffling things around, which of course naturally happens, uh, when you are a leader? , uh, what we know about coaching bill is that coaching the solutions come from within. You know, I wrote a book. There are hundreds of thousands of leadership articles out there, and I encourage new leaders like you were to do some of that studying, you know, to read, to listen to podcasts and so forth.

But at the end of the day, you have to put on your own leadership coat and figure out what really works for. what, what, uh, style you’re going to have, and then to constantly, I would encourage you to request feedback from your team. How, as you’re laying out feedback,

[00:09:44] Bill Staikos: Jan, what’s a good, what’s a good way to do that?

Is that quarterly? Is that semi during like our regular process? Mm-hmm. that we have at the company. You know, we do semi-annual and annual reviews. Should that go to me? Should that go to my boss anonymously? Like what’s the, what do, what do you think the best way to do? So

[00:10:00] Janet Polach: what would you feel most comfortable doing?

[00:10:03] Bill Staikos: I’d be okay with the team providing anonymous feedback or feedback directly to my direct I, I would hope that mm-hmm. , they would feel comfortable sharing that with me directly, unfiltered, or as, as they would, or just, you know, CC me on that note so I have it as well. I’ve always been sort of the type of person where, , I, you know, I do ask for feedback and always have regularly.

I just, um, I always prefer to be unfiltered, meaning, you know, don’t re just be direct with the feedback. Um, so I certainly that would be my request. Yeah, I’d love to maybe ask quarterly, but I’m not sure if that’s too frequent, cuz that is a not against policy obviously, but, um, it maybe is not sort of the, the, the rhythm that the company has.

[00:10:49] Janet Polach: Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Uh, in my book, I talk about creating a culture of feedback and how do you do that? You do that through doing it informally and doing it frequently. So I think the nirvana of a team is to get to a point where everybody feels comfortable giving each other feedback. John, I was waiting for the report.

I didn’t get it until the next day. Uh, , I ran behind and, and now I had to scurry to get the presentation put together. You know, when you can create that environment where everybody owns the feedback, I think you’ve got something really special going on with a team until you get there, though, um, requesting feedback on a regular basis makes good sense, especially as a new leader in those first two weeks, four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks to find out what are you doing really?

And what do I need to do either more of or less of? And so Bill, you’re absolutely on track and thinking about, um, yeah, regular feedback is something

[00:11:55] Bill Staikos: that I need to do that’s part of like a 90-day plan. Jen, do you think that asking for feedback monthly through each kind of 30 day phase and then maybe going to quarterly or you know, what have you found to be, or what do you think would be a best practice there?

[00:12:10] Janet Polach: I think it’s a great practice, um, to, to get, you know, to set that up early with your team. Of course, you have to introduce that to them if that’s what you’re going to do. Um, that I’m gonna ask for feedback regular, and these are gonna be a 30 day interval, so start thinking about it so you’re not surprised.

something I’ve been doing a lot lately with executives is actually doing, uh, 9,120 day brand new to the role, um, narrative feedback. And so I’m hired to talk to individuals that report to this leader, that talk, talk to the boss and say, so what is Sharon doing? What does she need to think about interning on in terms of overcoming resistance and, um, what does she need to do to be successful?

So, bill, you’re absolutely on track to think about how do I gather all this feedback early on and immediately so I don’t develop a habit that annoys my, I don’t

wanna

[00:13:10] Bill Staikos: do that, certainly not as a new, uh, leader. The one thing that kind of, you know, is keeping me up at night is this, you know, um, , and I don’t know if it’s in my head or if it’s, you know, a reality is, but I, I think some, some members may, you know, one or at least one or two may feel slighted that they sort of deserve that promotion to be leading the team.

Um, you know, I want to address that directly with them. Um, I don’t do want to do it in a way where I make them feel, um, what’s the best way to put it, defensive. I don’t want them to be on, sort of on their heels. Um, and I want to get off on the right foot. Right. How do I kind of soften? Do you have any like, thoughts about how I might soften that message?

I don’t want to. Um, there is one in particular person there that I know wanted the promotion. Mm-hmm. , they told me even before, um, it was an m. Yep. And I’m thinking about just addressing that directly. You know, we’ve gotta work together. I value them as an individual, um mm-hmm. , I value them as an, as a critical member of the team and their expertise and what they can do.

Is there, you know, but again, and I know that they wanted it, but again, we’ve gotta work together and, you know mm-hmm. , I’m hoping that yeah, there’s a partnership and you know, where we’re b where we’re both successful, not just, you know, I’m not looking for you to help me be successful. That’s not the, uh, it’s not the mo.

Um, so how, how might approach that? Is that a decent way to kind of think about tailoring that conversation? Or is there anything else I might want to think? .

[00:14:46] Janet Polach: Yeah. So Bill, what’s your hesitancy here?

[00:14:50] Bill Staikos: I maybe just,

[00:14:52] Janet Polach: what, what’s holding you back a little bit from just having a, that conversation?

[00:14:55] Bill Staikos: Maybe AER syndrome is in there, right.

Um, you know, questioning myself, which I don’t, you know, again, that’s just sort of an mm-hmm. You know mm-hmm. , thinking back to that time, Jen, right? Mm-hmm. , um, could I do this? And even though I had confidence in my abilities, it was my first time leading a. Right. And I don’t, I didn’t wanna screw that up certainly.

Um, cuz I know, I, I know what the impact of that could be, so. Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s, the, the hesitancy is, you know, just being a first time leader and not wanting to, uh, you know, not wanting to mess that up and, and, and could that have negative long-term implications for my career. .

[00:15:31] Janet Polach: Yeah, right. Bill, I get a sense from hearing you that you are a genuine, caring individual and a genuine caring leader, and so taking time to meet with this individual to say, I know this could be awkward.

You know, calling out what is on the TA, potentially on the table, and then asking the question as you suggested, how do we work together? How do I support you now in your next promotion, in you being successful, in advocating to you throughout the organization, um, even though you didn’t get this particular P promotion?

That’s great advice. I think you’re absolutely right on the right track.

[00:16:14] Bill Staikos: That’s great advice actually. Um, and what did hap, go ahead.

[00:16:17] Janet Polach: Sorry. Yeah, well, bill, I think what you’re finding in a, in a coaching conversation is it’s not my role to give you advice, although sometimes my clients will tell me that my role is to help you uncover what you’ve already mm-hmm.

got a sense about what you should. , um, you know, should I do A or should I do B? And in a coaching conversation we talk about the value of A versus the value of B and the downside of A and B. But you know, finally you’ve gotta do what you think is going to be right for you. Because if I tell you about some solution, it’s gonna be like, well, my coach told me to do this.

It seems kind of wonky, but. And, and then it’s not gonna go well. Yeah. Cause

[00:17:02] Bill Staikos: there, there is a real difference between mentoring, which is, here’s what I had done in similar situations in coaching. Um, how are you thinking about approaching and asking the questions to kind of get out the, uh mm-hmm. , what that individual wants to do?

Um, I steering them down a path of, of success, of course, through that. Um, lucky enough for me, I did. Lucky enough for me, I did have a really, absolutely good leader, um, at the time, knew I was a new manager, really helped me through that process. Sometimes they were a mentor, sometimes they were a coach. And I’ve always found that the great leaders that I’ve always worked for, mm-hmm.

mm-hmm. know when to turn mentor on and mentor off, and know when to turn coach on and coach off, uh, frankly, depending on the situation. Mm-hmm. , which I think is really, I.

[00:17:47] Janet Polach: Absolutely. Sorry, bill. I think too, as a brand new manager, as a brand new manager, sometimes we are reluctant to ask for help. You already mentored, uh, mentioned imposter syndrome.

You know, we were really, really good at being an individual contributor, and so ta-da, the organization thinks, oh, I must be a spectacular manager. And yet we don’t train them or teach them or do anything o other than. Other than in the military. Um, and, uh, so brand new managers are left to think, well, I think I know what I’m doing, but I’m not, I don’t, I’m not positive.

And I loved how you, um, utilized your manager to tap into her, his or her wisdom on. I’m thinking about doing this. What do you think, does it fit into the style of the organization? Does it reinforce our, our organizational values? Uh, if I approach the situation this way, will the per person feel supported and not put on the spot?

So utilizing people in our network, including our manager, is really important for new managers, uh, to leverage. And I think they just don’t think they should because they don’t wanna show their vulnerability.

[00:18:57] Bill Staikos: That’s a great point. Do you know one of the things. Jan. Like when you think about sort of the great resignation and everything that’s going on today, it really does feel like middle management is in this terrible squeeze.

Right. To your point before, and I love your point around most people don’t get coaching in in their until they’re 40. It, you know, obviously, you know, and you might get that maybe in your, in your early career as well. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Why do you think that is? Why, why do you think folks in the middle. Are not getting the support that they need.

That frankly is, is, is make or break for people? A lot of

[00:19:34] Janet Polach: people, I think Bill, it’s a couple of, of of reasons. Number one, there are a lot of managers and organizations, so you know, we think about a triangle. There’s one c e o, and then there’s a few executive team members. And the numbers get bigger and bigger and bigger as we move down.

And so I think organizations get overwhelmed by how do I prepare these brand new managers, um, especially before we get them promoted to think about what do good managers do. Um, so I think that it’s, the volume I think is one challenge. I think the other thing is there’s a false perception that if I really train and prepare this manager, then she’ll.

She’ll go someplace else. And I think what we’ve learned through research over and over again that if we train her, if we develop her, if we give her confidence in that new role, she’s more likely than not gonna stay. and, um, what we’re seeing, I think just in the last month now in the workforce is there is a settling that I am finding is that people kind of did all their job changes.

Now they’re, they’re dug into their new organization and they’re hoping they’ll stay. I think their demands from their leadership is still high. That yes, we’re gonna have conversations about my career. Yes, we’re gonna talk about what I really love to do. Yes. I’m gonna let you know when things aren’t going well.

Uh, but that doesn’t mean just cuz we have that conversation that I’m gonna leave the organization.

[00:21:04] Bill Staikos: That’s really interesting point and I think one that a lot of companies and leaders kind of miss. Mm-hmm. , what do you think? Just from a, from a middle manager perspective? , if I’m a leader and I’ve got, let’s say, you know, I’m, I’m managing five managers of, of other, of of teams, right?

Um, what are you seeing in the marketplace, Jan, where. , you know, that leader should be focusing on their, their attention. Hmm. Uh, sort of the leader of those managers, how should they be focusing their attention to make sure that those managers are equipped with what they need to, to be able to be successful and, and, and you’re not losing people either at that level or even below.

[00:21:50] Janet Polach: Yeah. I think what I talk to organizations about more than anything else is having valuable one-on-one convers. And when I raise that, a manager, a director will say to me, oh, Janet, I talk to my people all the time. You know, we, we interact almost daily. I ask them what they’re working on, if they have any problems, but a really quality one-on-one conversation is something different.

It’s number one. How are you doing? How are you really doing, bill? You know, we’ve been through lots of chaos in the last two or three years. How, how are the kids settling into school? How is your spouse doing in their career? How are you, you know, I understand your mother was sick. How’s she feeling? Just that personal connection.

Then we say, so what do you feel good about? What have you accomplished recently that, that, you know, uh, gave you a chance to learn and overcome re. And so we talk about that and then what challenges are you up against? Is it just resource or is it capability of the resource? Is it volume or is it content of the job?

And then how can I help you be successful? It’s amazing. I talk to managers and I say, you have to understand what your employee aspires to become. Because how can I help them aspire if I don’t know what they aspire to? And managers will say to me, oh, but I can’t have that job, have that conversation. What if they want my job?

Well, great , at least you know it. . You know, they want your job, but they’re not ready yet. Well, let’s get them ready. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think as a leader, helping your managers learn how to have good one-on-one conversations, and then holding them accountable to have the host. They don’t have to happen every single week and they don’t have to be an hour, an hour and a half long, 30 minutes every other week.

Don’t ever postpone them. Don’t ever cancel them, but have them on a regular basis to just find out how is that employee thriving?

[00:23:55] Bill Staikos: Have you, your environment, look, you work with a lot of organization, more people are having them, or is the balance still more companies need to be. I

[00:24:05] Janet Polach: think we’re getting better.

I harken back to a leadership development program. I did it an insurance company this winter, and I said to this group of 20 leaders, you know, none of them were brand new in the first 90 days. They had all been managers for, for several months, uh, up to several years. And I said, what do. What do your one-on-ones look like?

And this one lovely manager who I will always be so grateful for, said Janet. I don’t have them because I don’t know what I’d cover, so I just avoid them. So I think there’s a lot of fear of what are they gonna ask and what if I can’t answer it, and not knowing how to really have a good one-on-one conversation.

That isn’t just a task list, you know, who wants to leave a meeting with their manager with 102 additional things to, to work on, you know, so this isn’t about doling out more work, a good one-on-one is really about having an engaging conversation in you, the employee, and how are you thriving at work?

[00:25:13] Bill Staikos: I love Jen.

I know we’re, uh, we’re, we’re, um, we’re coming up on time here. I do have two more questions for you though, if you hang on for just a couple more minutes with us. Um, this has been a really great conversation. Uh, even just even the scenario that we Absolutely, we, we played out, um, just as a leader. Just I, I, I’m reflecting even on my own leadership, uh, now as well.

So I really appreciate you coming on the show. Are, are there leaders in industry that you look up to or, or look at and say, There’s a person to emulate, you know, should our listeners be, um, you know what, what other leaders maybe that you look up to or you try, you look, you, you think are, um, really emulating the style and the approach that other leaders could or should be doing, uh, is that maybe our listeners haven’t thought about.

[00:26:00] Janet Polach: Yeah, I, I think, I think they’re everywhere and they, they struggle with, um, what does good leadership like. Um, so I don’t think a lot of us have had real good managers to emulate after. , but I think they are in many, many places. And it has to do with a lot senior leadership, setting the expectation. Cause people stuff really does matter that yes, we have to hit our pro productivity numbers, but we have to hit them by engaging other people.

And even if you work in a distribution warehouse, You know that constant on the clock, how many boxes have you filled? How many cases have you moved? It’s redundant and it’s draining. And if there isn’t some bigger connection to what is this organization about, employees are gonna move through that company, you know, until they find something.

So, um, finding, I think, man, good managers are everywhere, but good, good management can be developed, but it, you have to work at it. It, for most of us, it just doesn’t come automatically.

[00:27:10] Bill Staikos: Yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree. Um, Jan, where do you go for inspiration? I’m sure there are some places you go that fill up your cup or fill up your Where

[00:27:19] Janet Polach: do I go for inspiration?

I, I, I love Ted Talks and listening to those breakthrough ideas. Um, I, I, I kind of go for anti int inspiration. Sometimes when I look at leaders on the national landscape and say, oh my gosh, you know, they’re not inspiring at all. Um, I, I try to watch the leaders that I work with to say, what have they done really, really well?

Um, and, and capture that kind of in a, i I, I don’t have a list on my computer of great leaders who have done great things, but I’m pretty good at capturing that in my head, um, and remembering what those experiences look like and remembering that those people are just like you and I. They care about their individuals.

They care about being promoted over somebody else and how that other person is going to respond. And so, um, they take time working on their relationships with. That’s great. I love that. Colleagues.

[00:28:19] Bill Staikos: Um, Jan, thanks so much for coming on the show. Wonderful to have you on. And I, I’m, I’m so grateful that you agreed to do the coaching session, uh, on the show as well.

Really different approach for, for us, uh, on this show. But, um, I think it really teased out some really valuable lessons, um, and, uh, grateful to have you on.

[00:28:40] Janet Polach: Great. Thank you so much, bill. I really enjoyed it. All right,

[00:28:42] Bill Staikos: everybody, another great show for you. We’re out. Talk to you soon everyone.

[00:28:45] Janet Polach: Thanks for listening to be customer led with Bill Stagos.

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