Janet Polach on Leadership

Janet Polach on Leadership

Welcome to be customer led, where we’ll explore how leading experts in customer and employee experience are navigating organizations through their own journey to be customer led and the actions and behaviors employees and businesses exhibit to get there. And now your host, bill Stagos.

Um, and the company, she, you know, she, she works out of is in the Lead Inc. And, and some great coaching, particularly even with young professionals. And, um, it’s gonna, we’re gonna go through a coaching session actually today, you know, on the show we’re recording this and, um, I think folks are gonna get a lot of value outta this.

Janet, thanks so much for coming on the show and agreeing to do this with

But, um, I’d love for you to just kind of tell us about that and then how you got into, uh, leadership development. Great.

So I scratched my head and I said, now what am I gonna do? I could have. Either gone back and gotten a master’s and then be especially unemployable or, um, I looked around and decided the military might not be a bad way to go. Peace was breaking out all over the world, and so it was a good time to become a a military member.

I looked at all four services and a Marine Corps recruiter was just really good. He just hit all the right buttons. Talked about espree and belonging and being one of the few, and the proud Little did. I know that in the 20 years that I was on active duty and in the reserves, that everything would change for women in the military.

I equate that mostly to Desert Storm. We deployed all the women that we had, um, during that first, um, incursion with Iraq and women performed admirably. Uh, we now have women in the, at least in the Marine Corps and certainly in all the services, uh, flying combat, he aircraft. Um, leading infantry platoons.

And so really, I, I believe in the United States Supreme Court, the glass ceiling really was broken and I think it was broken because these women were put on the spot and they prevailed. They did a great job. They didn’t complain. They were physically fit. And um, so there is a lot of opportunity because of that in the military for.

I

Um, absolutely. So yeah. If, if you now kind of fast forward now you’re doing, you know, leadership development and coaching. Absolutely. You’ve taken sort of this, um, or you’ve, or you’ve packaged everything you learned in the military essentially, uh, to working with professionals to make them better, um, in their own capacity.

Um, , we we’re gonna do a coaching session now, so you’re gonna, I’m gonna, I don’t know if I should lie down for this janitor or not, but Jan, but, uh, you know, we’ll, uh, it’s not, it’s not obviously a psych session, but the, the scenario that we’re gonna do folks is, um, a scenario that actually happened to me and, um, I, I was just promoted to, uh, vice president, um, leading a small team at a bank.

All the people that I was leading were my peers before the Promot. And while I, I had confidence in my abilities then, you know, I wasn’t feeling so super hot about the fact that, um, you know, now I’m leading my peers and I’ve never done that before and it was very uncomfortable. You know, back then I had teams.

Also, if I just kind of re think back to it, I, I, you know, I had aspirations like a lot of young professionals do, of leading a large team one day, you know, whatever that meant for, for, for a career. And I thought a lot back then. I also thought that leading a large team was sort of important for my career as well.

And, you know, I, I need to plan out my first 90 days, Janet. Um, and really not only show the team that I’m gonna be a great. But also for myself and maybe my own self-confidence on some level. And how might you start that conversation? Yeah.

the average individual is promoted to manager at, in their late twenties and often don’t get any leadership development until almost their mid forties. And so these new managers, new leaders are left to kind of flounder and figure it out. Maybe they got lucky enough to have, um, an experienced manager that they could emulate, but most of us, that’s not the case.

So tell me, bill, what, what’s your natural inclination to do during those first 90 days?

Maybe how do I address that? Maybe my first, you know, 30 days as well. Yeah,

What would good look like

Nice. Yeah. And, and do you feel like that’s the right, think, you know next

I don’t want to necessarily, yeah. I, I don’t know if I wanna necessarily, or I’m concerned that I’m being compared to the prior leader as well, so I’m trying to create sort of my own shoes to fill, not necessarily try fill someone else. .

I think as a leader, you know, there’s, there’s many, many solutions as a leader that we can undertake. Uh, what you have to do is do what feels right to you. You know, if I were to sit here and tell you, oh, you also should do a campaign for the team and a logo and all of that, and if that doesn’t fit for you, that wouldn’t.

So I love how you’ve given some real thought to setting a vision and then thinking about the TRA strategy, and then you know, figuring out who is really capable and who wants to do what on this team. The old leader, the former leader, may not have given people the opportunity to really think about. What do I do well?

How do I really connect with the work that I’m doing? And what’s an opportunity now that we’re shuffling things around, which of course naturally happens, uh, when you are a leader? , uh, what we know about coaching bill is that coaching the solutions come from within. You know, I wrote a book. There are hundreds of thousands of leadership articles out there, and I encourage new leaders like you were to do some of that studying, you know, to read, to listen to podcasts and so forth.

But at the end of the day, you have to put on your own leadership coat and figure out what really works for. what, what, uh, style you’re going to have, and then to constantly, I would encourage you to request feedback from your team. How, as you’re laying out feedback,

Is that quarterly? Is that semi during like our regular process? Mm-hmm. that we have at the company. You know, we do semi-annual and annual reviews. Should that go to me? Should that go to my boss anonymously? Like what’s the, what do, what do you think the best way to do? So

I just, um, I always prefer to be unfiltered, meaning, you know, don’t re just be direct with the feedback. Um, so I certainly that would be my request. Yeah, I’d love to maybe ask quarterly, but I’m not sure if that’s too frequent, cuz that is a not against policy obviously, but, um, it maybe is not sort of the, the, the rhythm that the company has.

I didn’t get it until the next day. Uh, , I ran behind and, and now I had to scurry to get the presentation put together. You know, when you can create that environment where everybody owns the feedback, I think you’ve got something really special going on with a team until you get there, though, um, requesting feedback on a regular basis makes good sense, especially as a new leader in those first two weeks, four weeks, six weeks, eight weeks to find out what are you doing really?

And what do I need to do either more of or less of? And so Bill, you’re absolutely on track and thinking about, um, yeah, regular feedback is something

something I’ve been doing a lot lately with executives is actually doing, uh, 9,120 day brand new to the role, um, narrative feedback. And so I’m hired to talk to individuals that report to this leader, that talk, talk to the boss and say, so what is Sharon doing? What does she need to think about interning on in terms of overcoming resistance and, um, what does she need to do to be successful?

So, bill, you’re absolutely on track to think about how do I gather all this feedback early on and immediately so I don’t develop a habit that annoys my, I don’t

wanna

Um, you know, I want to address that directly with them. Um, I don’t do want to do it in a way where I make them feel, um, what’s the best way to put it, defensive. I don’t want them to be on, sort of on their heels. Um, and I want to get off on the right foot. Right. How do I kind of soften? Do you have any like, thoughts about how I might soften that message?

I don’t want to. Um, there is one in particular person there that I know wanted the promotion. Mm-hmm. , they told me even before, um, it was an m. Yep. And I’m thinking about just addressing that directly. You know, we’ve gotta work together. I value them as an individual, um mm-hmm. , I value them as an, as a critical member of the team and their expertise and what they can do.

Is there, you know, but again, and I know that they wanted it, but again, we’ve gotta work together and, you know mm-hmm. , I’m hoping that yeah, there’s a partnership and you know, where we’re b where we’re both successful, not just, you know, I’m not looking for you to help me be successful. That’s not the, uh, it’s not the mo.

Um, so how, how might approach that? Is that a decent way to kind of think about tailoring that conversation? Or is there anything else I might want to think? .

Um, you know, questioning myself, which I don’t, you know, again, that’s just sort of an mm-hmm. You know mm-hmm. , thinking back to that time, Jen, right? Mm-hmm. , um, could I do this? And even though I had confidence in my abilities, it was my first time leading a. Right. And I don’t, I didn’t wanna screw that up certainly.

Um, cuz I know, I, I know what the impact of that could be, so. Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s, the, the hesitancy is, you know, just being a first time leader and not wanting to, uh, you know, not wanting to mess that up and, and, and could that have negative long-term implications for my career. .

You know, calling out what is on the TA, potentially on the table, and then asking the question as you suggested, how do we work together? How do I support you now in your next promotion, in you being successful, in advocating to you throughout the organization, um, even though you didn’t get this particular P promotion?

That’s great advice. I think you’re absolutely right on the right track.

got a sense about what you should. , um, you know, should I do A or should I do B? And in a coaching conversation we talk about the value of A versus the value of B and the downside of A and B. But you know, finally you’ve gotta do what you think is going to be right for you. Because if I tell you about some solution, it’s gonna be like, well, my coach told me to do this.

It seems kind of wonky, but. And, and then it’s not gonna go well. Yeah. Cause

Um, I steering them down a path of, of success, of course, through that. Um, lucky enough for me, I did. Lucky enough for me, I did have a really, absolutely good leader, um, at the time, knew I was a new manager, really helped me through that process. Sometimes they were a mentor, sometimes they were a coach. And I’ve always found that the great leaders that I’ve always worked for, mm-hmm.

mm-hmm. know when to turn mentor on and mentor off, and know when to turn coach on and coach off, uh, frankly, depending on the situation. Mm-hmm. , which I think is really, I.

You know, we were really, really good at being an individual contributor, and so ta-da, the organization thinks, oh, I must be a spectacular manager. And yet we don’t train them or teach them or do anything o other than. Other than in the military. Um, and, uh, so brand new managers are left to think, well, I think I know what I’m doing, but I’m not, I don’t, I’m not positive.

And I loved how you, um, utilized your manager to tap into her, his or her wisdom on. I’m thinking about doing this. What do you think, does it fit into the style of the organization? Does it reinforce our, our organizational values? Uh, if I approach the situation this way, will the per person feel supported and not put on the spot?

So utilizing people in our network, including our manager, is really important for new managers, uh, to leverage. And I think they just don’t think they should because they don’t wanna show their vulnerability.

Right. To your point before, and I love your point around most people don’t get coaching in in their until they’re 40. It, you know, obviously, you know, and you might get that maybe in your, in your early career as well. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Why do you think that is? Why, why do you think folks in the middle. Are not getting the support that they need.

That frankly is, is, is make or break for people? A lot of

And so I think organizations get overwhelmed by how do I prepare these brand new managers, um, especially before we get them promoted to think about what do good managers do. Um, so I think that it’s, the volume I think is one challenge. I think the other thing is there’s a false perception that if I really train and prepare this manager, then she’ll.

She’ll go someplace else. And I think what we’ve learned through research over and over again that if we train her, if we develop her, if we give her confidence in that new role, she’s more likely than not gonna stay. and, um, what we’re seeing, I think just in the last month now in the workforce is there is a settling that I am finding is that people kind of did all their job changes.

Now they’re, they’re dug into their new organization and they’re hoping they’ll stay. I think their demands from their leadership is still high. That yes, we’re gonna have conversations about my career. Yes, we’re gonna talk about what I really love to do. Yes. I’m gonna let you know when things aren’t going well.

Uh, but that doesn’t mean just cuz we have that conversation that I’m gonna leave the organization.

Um, what are you seeing in the marketplace, Jan, where. , you know, that leader should be focusing on their, their attention. Hmm. Uh, sort of the leader of those managers, how should they be focusing their attention to make sure that those managers are equipped with what they need to, to be able to be successful and, and, and you’re not losing people either at that level or even below.

It’s number one. How are you doing? How are you really doing, bill? You know, we’ve been through lots of chaos in the last two or three years. How, how are the kids settling into school? How is your spouse doing in their career? How are you, you know, I understand your mother was sick. How’s she feeling? Just that personal connection.

Then we say, so what do you feel good about? What have you accomplished recently that, that, you know, uh, gave you a chance to learn and overcome re. And so we talk about that and then what challenges are you up against? Is it just resource or is it capability of the resource? Is it volume or is it content of the job?

And then how can I help you be successful? It’s amazing. I talk to managers and I say, you have to understand what your employee aspires to become. Because how can I help them aspire if I don’t know what they aspire to? And managers will say to me, oh, but I can’t have that job, have that conversation. What if they want my job?

Well, great , at least you know it. . You know, they want your job, but they’re not ready yet. Well, let’s get them ready. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think as a leader, helping your managers learn how to have good one-on-one conversations, and then holding them accountable to have the host. They don’t have to happen every single week and they don’t have to be an hour, an hour and a half long, 30 minutes every other week.

Don’t ever postpone them. Don’t ever cancel them, but have them on a regular basis to just find out how is that employee thriving?

I harken back to a leadership development program. I did it an insurance company this winter, and I said to this group of 20 leaders, you know, none of them were brand new in the first 90 days. They had all been managers for, for several months, uh, up to several years. And I said, what do. What do your one-on-ones look like?

And this one lovely manager who I will always be so grateful for, said Janet. I don’t have them because I don’t know what I’d cover, so I just avoid them. So I think there’s a lot of fear of what are they gonna ask and what if I can’t answer it, and not knowing how to really have a good one-on-one conversation.

That isn’t just a task list, you know, who wants to leave a meeting with their manager with 102 additional things to, to work on, you know, so this isn’t about doling out more work, a good one-on-one is really about having an engaging conversation in you, the employee, and how are you thriving at work?

I know we’re, uh, we’re, we’re, um, we’re coming up on time here. I do have two more questions for you though, if you hang on for just a couple more minutes with us. Um, this has been a really great conversation. Uh, even just even the scenario that we Absolutely, we, we played out, um, just as a leader. Just I, I, I’m reflecting even on my own leadership, uh, now as well.

So I really appreciate you coming on the show. Are, are there leaders in industry that you look up to or, or look at and say, There’s a person to emulate, you know, should our listeners be, um, you know what, what other leaders maybe that you look up to or you try, you look, you, you think are, um, really emulating the style and the approach that other leaders could or should be doing, uh, is that maybe our listeners haven’t thought about.

And even if you work in a distribution warehouse, You know that constant on the clock, how many boxes have you filled? How many cases have you moved? It’s redundant and it’s draining. And if there isn’t some bigger connection to what is this organization about, employees are gonna move through that company, you know, until they find something.

So, um, finding, I think, man, good managers are everywhere, but good, good management can be developed, but it, you have to work at it. It, for most of us, it just doesn’t come automatically.

I, I, I love Ted Talks and listening to those breakthrough ideas. Um, I, I, I kind of go for anti int inspiration. Sometimes when I look at leaders on the national landscape and say, oh my gosh, you know, they’re not inspiring at all. Um, I, I try to watch the leaders that I work with to say, what have they done really, really well?

Um, and, and capture that kind of in a, i I, I don’t have a list on my computer of great leaders who have done great things, but I’m pretty good at capturing that in my head, um, and remembering what those experiences look like and remembering that those people are just like you and I. They care about their individuals.

They care about being promoted over somebody else and how that other person is going to respond. And so, um, they take time working on their relationships with. That’s great. I love that. Colleagues.

Really different approach for, for us, uh, on this show. But, um, I think it really teased out some really valuable lessons, um, and, uh, grateful to have you on.

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